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Wednesday, October 10, 20071192035574

Turkey, a Gap country with some European land

Two articles, "Presure on Turkish PM to order Iraq invasion" (hat-tip to Thomas P.M. Barnett :: Weblog) and Rice warns against Armenia bill both point to Turkey as a country in the Islamic Gap and not one in the Core (such as America, Ukraine, India, etc.).

istanbul_bridge_md
Turkey: A Bridge from Europe to the Gap


Turkey, at this time of choice between a future in Europe (which means abandoning dreams of ancient empires, as the Germans, Hungarians, Romanians, and Greeks have already done) or a future in the Gap (which means abandoning the peace, growth, and properity of the West for generations) is making the wrong choice. Her past oppression and murder (even if it wasn't genocide) of the Armenians, and present petty war against the Kurds (which goes so far as to outlaw the letter "w") are the marks of country with the geostrateic maturity of a Serbia, at best.

We can be geostrategic friends with Turkey while recognizing that their perspective is fundamentally different from ours, as we are with Pakistan, say, or Saudi Arabia. But they are not a true ally, or even a country with an essentially friendly regime.

11:59 Posted in Europe | Permalink | Comments (6) | Tags: turkey

Comments

Eh?

How is their self-defense against Kurdish terrorists "petty"? I'll admit that their continuing mistreatment of various aspects of Kurdish culture is clearly wrong, but the situation has been improving of late in spite of the terrorist attacks by Kurds from N. Iraq.

These people have a vibrant democracy that is just now beginning to come to fruition. While there are certainly grave challenges ahead for Turkey, she represents the best hope for Muslim democracy in the future (as well as Indonesia). We should be encouraging that, not degrading it by ignoring the often racist attitudes of Europeans who deplore the possibility of Turkey joining the EU or criticizing the government for defending its borders and security.

In reality, she will be a seam state for a long time to come, because she has major interests and concerns in two seriously depraved regions of the world, the Middle East and Central Asia.

Posted by: Eddie | Wednesday, October 10, 2007

"How is their self-defense against Kurdish terrorists "petty"? "

Certainly it isn't. Bizarre human rights abuses, like banning specific letters, are petty, however.

Banning a letter would not even occur to a country in the Core. But it's precisely the sort of nonse that keeps biting hte Gap.

"I'll admit that their continuing mistreatment of various aspects of Kurdish culture is clearly wrong, "

Not just wrong, but stupid. In the same way that the Muslim Brothers are a product of the Egyptian regime, and al Qaeda is a product of the Saudi Regime, the PKK is a product of the Turkish regime. Violnelty criminalize descent gets you dissidents who are violent criminals.

Compare the treatment of the Basques under the French and Spanish. Under Franco, even flying the Basque flag was a crime. Under France, Paris did not care (in the same sense you can fly a La Raza banner without comment from the copys in this countru). And now think of what country has the violent Basques?

"but the situation has been improving of late in spite of the terrorist attacks by Kurds from N. Iraq. "

The current civilian government of Turkey is Islamist, not Kemalist. Unlike the generals and secular rulers of Turkey, the current government cares little for 19th-century versions of nationalism. They care much more about the call of God. Therefore, they concentrate their energy away from the Kurds and towards islamizing Turkey's government

"These people have a vibrant democracy that is just now beginning to come to fruition."

They are between coups now, yes.

Though the generals current "pressure" on Turkey isn't just in the complaining-at-cocktail-parties sort...

"While there are certainly grave challenges ahead for Turkey, she represents the best hope for Muslim democracy in the future (as well as Indonesia)."

Agreed.

"We should be encouraging that, not degrading it by ignoring the often racist attitudes of Europeans who deplore the possibility of Turkey joining the EU or criticizing the government for defending its borders and security."

What racism? The Turks are a mediterranean people, with as much asiatic ingression as say, American blacks have European ingression. I assume they are as "European" a stock as are, say, the Russians.

Rather, there is widespread fear in Europe over both Islam and religiosity, both of which are much, much higher in Turkey than in any EU member state.

"In reality, she will be a seam state for a long time to come,"

My (albiet simplistic) analysis argues that the Core-Seam-Gap map makes more sense when every African and Muslim country is viewed as part of the Gap, and the "Seam" is used for those non-African, non-Muslim countries that Tom viewed as in the Gap [1].


"because she has major interests and concerns in two seriously depraved regions of the world, the Middle East and Central Asia."

Indeed. So does Iran.

[1] http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/05/08/redefining-the-gap-1-prologue.html

Posted by: Dan tdaxp | Thursday, October 11, 2007

Well, who would have thought banning gay marriage would occur in a core country.

Posted by: sonofsamphm1c | Thursday, October 11, 2007

sonofsamphm1c ,

"Well, who would have thought banning gay marriage would occur in a core country."

Up to a few years ago such were not legal in any country, so I'm not sure what your point is. (Might we also ask who would have thought that reporting the income of hedge fund managers as capital-gains might happen in a core country?)

You do emphasis the point that Turkey, like the United States, is a very religious country [1]. Unlike the United States, Turkey has minimal political freedoms, has military "protection" over the civilian government, borders Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, has a strong legacy of socialism, prohibits basic religious freedoms, etc. etc. etc.

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/turkey-islam-eu.php

Posted by: Dan tdaxp | Thursday, October 11, 2007

"Up to a few years ago such were not legal in any country..."

Right up until they thought about it.

Posted by: sonofsamphm1c | Thursday, October 11, 2007

"Banning a letter would not even occur to a country in the Core. But it's precisely the sort of nonse that keeps biting hte Gap."

I dunno, sounds kinda like the French & their goofy efforts to 'protect' their language & culture from English & American influence.

Posted by: TEJ | Tuesday, October 16, 2007

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